Quality Contol Issues

[GaryG]

I've had a number of annoying quality control issues with my 2012 B40 which my dealer has so far been unable to fix.

The first problem involves 2 recurrent leaks: they've been "fixed", but return.  Water collects in the space under the starter battery, just forward of the engine. this is in a separate bilge section, supposedly isolated from the rest of the bilge. There appears to be no water under the engine itself. The 2d leak is in the bilge section adjacent to the head. Both leaks seem to occur only after sailing; once cleaned up the bilge will stay dry if the boat is idle,  until the next sail/motoring.

The next problem concerns the instrument panel. First the tach needle was pinned to the max, but the engine was purring along at about 1500 rpm, with no problem.  That problem went away by itself, and then, several days later, the hour meter on the tach went blank for a while, and then started to work again.

The third problem is a new one, which showed up after the dealer apparently tried to fix the leaks.  The toilet half fills with dirty --non-sewage--water when the boat is left for a week.  I have always left the seacocks open, so nothing has changed in that regard.  When I clean it up and then sail for a day, the toilet is fine, but a week later, its half full.

Finally, a question.  When the autopilot is turning the boat to starboard, I can hear a mechanical sound and feel some vibration along the port lazarette. I guess the mechanism is located on the port side.  No noise or vibration when turning to port, and no issues when steering manually?  Do I have a problem, or is this normal?

Comments appreciated.

[Donizetti]

Hi Gary, on the engine hour meter issue, I had the same behavior. Then, I noticed that the key was at the "off" position even if the engine was running. (Probably switched by accident...) When turning it back to the "on" position, the hours could be read on the meter... I don't know if this is your issue, but that could be.

[William Dill]

Hi Gary, I have the same problem with the head. It seems to "fix" the problem if I pump the bowl dry before I leave. Since I always close all seacocks, pressure from them is eliminated. 

I also have water in the bilge section adjacent to the head. There is a discussion on this group about water leaking out the overflow of the shower sump that could be creating the problem. I have watched while the shower and sink are both on but have not "seen" any water coming from that vicinity so I am still looking for the culprit.

[clayton curtis]

Gary,

We have the same 2 leaks intermittently and exclusively post sailing. It's a small amount, maybe a 1/2 a cup near the raw water intake near the starter battery (but doesn't seem like it is coming from the part of the raw water seacock we can see), and 2 cups in the main bilge midship. I just sponge out the water every week or so, but still I don't think that is normal, right?  I did have a Bene employee (not to be named) tell me that it was normal for a bit of water to come in the bilge after a hard sail, but I've had other Bene owners tell me that their ship is always bone dry.

I've had various theories, but it's good to see that I'm not alone here.  Well, I don't mean I'm glad you have leaks too!  

Theory 1: I don't usually leave my speedometer plug in, as it tends to get critters homesteading in the wheel, which prevents it from turning.  When I open the plug and switch them as fast as I can, water does blast in.  I've wondered if that water goes somewhere thru the mysterious channels between the grid liner and the hull and finally makes it to the main bilge after sailing. I do also try to sponge it up quickly.

Theory 2: Sometimes I think the leaked water doesnt' taste very salty, if at all, and I might have slow fresh water leak. Or condensation from behind/below the fridge/freezer? But that doesn't match with the fact that there is more water after sailing, unless sailing just brings it to the bilge. 

Theory 3: Water is leaking in where the prop shaft exits. Maybe I need to apply more of that magic volvo grease that my dealer left me in a tube?  ********Does anyone know how to do that?

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WRT  toilet water, I think the sea water in the bowl is somehow getting slowly past some check valve (either the overboard hose via the macerator, or the sea water intake that fills the bowl). Since these hoses/seacocks are below the water line, and these check valves are not perfect, you might have the bowl fill up to a level that matches near the waterline, to an equilibrium.  Just a thought?  I get that too when I leave it for a week or more, but not if I close the valves. 

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WRT autopilot noise.  I do not get the noises you describe.  I would look under there carefully while someone is piloting the boat to make sure there is nothing pinching, rubbing, blocking, etc. I'd check the alignment of the mechanisms and that the chain is threading correctly.  Just a starting point. 

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WRT tach meter, mine gets wonky at times too.  One thing that I learned recently is that when my tach meter started acting funny, I noticed that my alternator belt was slipping and had lost a few teeth.  I tightened it and the tach worked fine. (Then I replaced the belt and have had zero problems).  Could be a coincidence, but possibly worth checking off the potential list of culprits.

/cc

[Jeff Shukis]

The toilet problem is probably not really a problem at all - it is "normal" behavior - although I agree that it's annoying. When we pump the head, a significant quantity of fluid remains in the hoses, prevented from flowing back into the bowl by the joker valve. The joker value isn't perfect, however, so after a few hours or a few days, some of the fluid in the hoses will flow back into the bowl.

As another user has already mentioned, the "fix" is to spend more time flushing in order to make sure that all of the "colored stuff" is in the tank, not in the hoses. That way, whatever flows back into the bowl is just water. It's even better if you have converted the toilet to fresh water flush.

[Jeff Shukis]

I also had water showing up in the bilge section near the rear head compartment. I found two issues:

1) I had a slightly loose connection in the water system. When under greater than usual pressure, for example after motoring when the engine adds heat to the water heater and increases pressure, I got a slow drip from this connection. The fix was to replace the factory crimp with a hose clamp.

2) The shower drain was improperly sealed. When water filled the drain, either from the shower or from the sink, a small amount would drip through into the bilge. The fix was to remove and re-caulk.

 

By the way, it may be the case that the leak shows up after some time spent sailing only because heeling causes water pooled somewhere hidden to flow to where you can see it.

My secret leak finding tool: sugar-free cherry cool-aid powder. The powder is whitish when dry, but turns dark red when it get wet. I have located several leaks by sprinkling small amounts of the power in the area where I believe the leak might be. Returning later, I could clearly see the path taken by the water.

[James Taylor]

Reference the auto pilot, I would suggest you insist the dealer repair this issue. There should be a smooth and overall quiet functioning with no binding or vibration on any point of sail.

Ref head. If you have an electric flush toilet the joker valve in that toilet needs replacement. What you describe is classic indications of a ineffective joker valve. The joker valve is allowing waste to seep back into the bowl gradually. I replaced ours last year. It's a relatively easy fix but you wanna run a bunch of fresh water through the hoses before you start disassembly if you are doing it yourself.

Ref leaks. It seems all these boats have the same leaks in that bilge next to the salon head. It's tends to be the connecting line to the fresh water pump that leaks. The factory, for some reason, never seems to get the quick connect inserted properly. All I did was reinsert the intake and out take connectors, problem solved. Most of these boats also seem to have salon shower sumps that leak also. Rebedding appears to be the answer.

The leak in the engine compartment is a new one to me. Yanmar came out with a fix for a bad valve at the rear of the 4jh4ae. It was some type valve that diverted water from the rear of the engine to the drive shaft. It was prone to leaking so they replaced it but I would think a 2012 model 4jh5ae engine would not have that valve. But what ever it is you need to have it fixed before it becomes a real problem. That engine bilge area should always be dry!

[Rafa]

Hi Gary,

In may case the water in the battery bilge came from the fresh water tank, due to a bad fit of the manhole cover.

I changed some weeks ago the joker valve and the problem with the head disappear (mine is a manual head).

Saludos

[Mike Brown]

Gary, more info for you.

For the tach issue check to make sure the violet wire at the alternator has a tight connection. If it's loose it can cause issues.

As James mentioned you need to change the check valve in the toilet. You may need to remove the toilet's mounting bolts and rotate the toilet to gain access to the valve body. They're under the plastic covers at the base of the toilet. It's easy to do.

The water in the bilge next to the head compartment is likely coming from the shower sump. Rebed the sump, check the hose ends at the fittings, etc.

The water under the battery is a mystery to me. It is a separate compartment designed to contain any battery acid that might spill. I would check any hoses in the area that may be spraying into that area. Have someone at the helm while under power and sail and open the steps to see if you can see any water.

I'm with James on having the dealer fix the autopilot noise/vibration. It shouldn't be doing that. It may be something simple thats rubbing against it.

Good luck

Mike

[John Whitehead]

I've experienced the same problem and eventually found that the water under the engine start battery has come from the aft water tank.  On the first occasion, the water resulted from a crack in the top of the tank (which necessitated replacing the tank) and on the second occasion the inspection port in the top of the tank was leaking. In both cases, a combination of a full or nearly full tank and having sailed with the boat heeled resulted in water under the engine start battery.

You can check if there is any water in the compartment forward of the aft water tank where the Raymarine processor and other sensitive components are mounted.  If there is water here it most likely eliminates it having leaked from the shower compartment and confirms that its coming from the fresh water tank.

Hope this helps.  John 

[Harry]

Lets see if I can contribute some from my limited experience.

I had the dreaded "head filling while gone problem" and after repeatedly replacing joker valves (3 a year) on a manual toilet I discovered it was, as usual, user error. I was cleaning the bowl with a harsh domestic bathroom cleaner and discovered it was attacking my joker valve. I stopped using harsh cleaning chemicals and now no dirty water on return and valves are lasting at least 12 months. 

If you are getting water in the engine battery area I'd suspect its coming from the engine's sea water cooling system. 

Harry

2008 B40