Sensible Small Boat Cruising

Probably the most defining influence wil be your draft. To try to sail around here and the bahamas with a 5-7 foot draft is a might tricky but there are other places where a draft like that is great

Wow, it's hard to believe that I've created one of the largest groups on this wonderful site. Seems I've struck a nerve somewhere. Thanks to all the members. NOW, contribute your thoughts, knowledge and dreams of cruising in small boats.

What few people realize when picking a boat you really need to understand what your desires and sailing skills are. Plus look at what happens when you age, will you be capable of really sailing a larger boat. I never want a boat bigger than I can sail by myself and be comfortable with or a boat that relies on electronics/automated systems. Today I’m very comfortable with “Trost” a S-2 9.2 cc. She has been a great boat.

Cheers, Mike
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Mike: I believe too many people have been influenced by the yachting magazines to believe that if you leave the dock in anything less than a 40 footer you're doomed to die before you reach the horizon. The reason, of course, is that their advertising income comes from the large boat builders and therefore the have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth.

I'm with you 100% about not wanting a boat bigger than one can handle themselves. Of course it's possible to single hand large boats at an advanced age. Look at Chitchester.

Everyone in their youth has their dreams of sailing off into the sunset, but they never see themselves as older and having to eat a handfull of pills every day to keep the ticker going. I know, for myself, I'll be a lot more "challenged" by age and physical condition than on my last adventure 16 years ago. Oh, well, but it isn't going to stop me.

I have sailed larger boats (around 60+ feet) and after spending a lot of time on board I started to notice that while they are comfortable due to large amounts of space much of that space is never used. When you have a 40 something foot boat, how often does one go into the v-berth when your living in an aft cabin etc. The other thing that they feel is that a small boat is not adequate to carry the gear they need. With modern technology (watermakers, refridgeration, outboards able to be used for propulsion, etc) taking an older small boat cruising can be even easier than when the boat was first made. 20 years ago if you had a 35 foot boat it may of been considered large, today you need something around 60 feet to be considered large. The ocean hasn't changed but it seems peoples comfort requirements have

Im listenin'

Boats in some aspects have become like houses, the bigger the better. In the 60s the average sq footage of a house was about 1500, today 3500. Why do we need so much space??? But in regards to sailing, It all really comes back to the question of what type of sailing do you see youself doing. I've seen many boats 35 ft and under cruising the east coast down to the carrib with little problems, also at a far lower cost. I've also seen alot of boats over 35 ft that never leave the docks.

Cheers, Mike
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I m not certain on where I would trek first (it will be a while, and I realize charts are available), just trying to get the feel of each coast (from a landlocked position), and the demands each possess and perhaps the attributes of the worthiest dinghy for said venture(s), focusing on the USof A shorelines at this moment. HA, I say dinghy but bigger, I certainly dont want/need much more than "?" feet. Ive lived in an rv through college and quite a spell there after, so Im accustomed to reclusive conditions lol. Real curious if an East coast boat will sail fine on the West Coast vice versa.

On know I may sound vague, so dont beat yerselves over this. Ive got time to learn.

All your advice is helpfull and hopefully I can return the favor to another salty wanna be.

___/)

Mike: It is a fact that boats are used in INVERSE proportion to their size. The smaller the boat the more it gets used.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOUSE AND A BOAT,
ACCORDING TO ARTHUR RANSOME
Houses are but badly built boats so firmly aground that you can not think of moving them. They are definitely inferior things, belonging to the vegetable, not the animal world, rooted and stationary, incapable of gay transition.... The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content thenceforward with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place.

The most useless things on my boat are anything made out of teak! While I sure enjoy the asthetics of lots of wood, I can't justify the amount of time to keep up with the bright work.

Probably best piece of equiptment for me is the roller furler. Previous boat had hank on jib...and it was a PITA to always be going forward on a relatively small foredeck. I'm not a racer in any sense, so I'm not worried about the increased windage or the .1 or .2 knots that I'm giving up with the less efficent leading edge.

Not all smaller boats seem that much more inexpensive than some larger ones. Pacific Seacraft's Flika, a 20 footer, was well over 90K when they stopped building them. Bristol Channel Cutter, at 28' can be very expensive (and have a ton of wood to keep up with), even small Island Packets seem to have pretty hefty price tags.

For me, the 35 footer seems to be the ideal size, enough room, storage, etc. and truth be known, it was about all I could afford to obtain a blue(ish) water boat.

Bob: Your post hit two points I'd like to address...

Hank-on vs roller furler. My own preference is hank-on. If I've learned one thing in all my years of running boats it's this...if it has moving parts it's probably going to break down at the worst possible time, and that goes for roller furlers, too. I'm a big supporter of the KISS principle. Remember when cars had points? You could fix them yourself if worse came to worse. NOW they have to be hooked up to a damned computer to figure out what's wrong with them.

Teak. . .When I bought my Kaiser 26 I stripped down the teak toe rails, main hatch and doors (yes, doors, not wash boards) and the cockpit trim. I estimated that it would take me approximately an honest week's worth of work each year to keep the stuff gleaming. Now, I do great varnish work when someone is paying me. I used to run an old classic motor yacht and had everything Bristol fashion with 19, count 'em nineteen, coats of varnish. The bright work was like glass. But on my own boat I figured I had better ways of spending a week of my life keeping the trim bright. I laid on three good coats of varnish on all the wood and covered that with two good coats of one-part polyurethane. Five years later the paint still gleamed and I'd had over a month's worth of time to do more important things than sand and varnish...like spending time drinking sundowners.

It's important to put down the varnish coats before the paint so the paint doesn't soak into the wood. Always assume that you'll eventually sell the boat and if the new owner wants to spend days varnishing things then when they go to strip off the paint the wood beneath wont be all messed up with soaked in paint.

Roller furling to me makes a lot of sense at least for the jib. There are problems that can develope true enough but if it is used correctly and maintained you shouldn't have problems. You can compare it to helm steering gears/pulleys, adjustable backstays, hydraulic vangs, or any other number of innovations. As you can tell I am in favor of roller furling on the jib, if you are at sea and cant do anything you can always sail the boat in circles and wrap it up. Unfortunatly you can't do this with in mast furling. My boat will have roller furling for the jib (if I add a sprit I will have a loose luff furling foreward). The boom is roller furling which I don't plan on using except for sail stowage possibly.

Living in northern Indiana prior to retiring, I spent 3 winters living on yatchworld and reading. I had determined that 32 feet was the right size boat for me, and of all of them I looked at, the Ontario 32 was my favorite. Fortunately, I was able to find one I could afford.

One point I should make, I'm a cruiser who sails, not a sailor who cruises. That might not seem like much of a difference, but it has to do with attitude. I enjoy sailing, and prefer to sail, but if I have to fire up my puny 13hp Yani to get where I'm going, then I will.

I like having roller furling on the jib, self-tailing winches and an electric windlass. I like having an auto-pilot, and chart software on my laptop. As a singlehander, I find all of these things contribute to my enjoyment of cruising. So far, I've gone from Tampa to Annapolis and back down to Marathon and now in Carolina. And my gadgets have served me well.

I feel you have to set your boat up for what makes you comfortable, and safe.

Ive found that the new GPS's have very good charts in them but if you are cruising large distances constantly having to update your charts.

Aria: I agree "you have to set your boat up for what makes you comfortable, and safe." I also believe that's pretty subjective to most people.

The cruiser vs sailor thing is interesting. I've fired up the iron monster a time or two myself, but that's generally because there wasn't any wind. I like the experience of sailing and since I'm cruising I don't have a time schedule and don't really care when I arrive somewhere.

I remember one brilliant afternoon down in Belize. I had left Placencia and was headed out to Ranguana Caye. The destination was dead to windward and I spent several hours tacking north and south to make my easting. The sun was shining, the wind was steady, the sky was blue, I had ice in the cooler and a cold iced tea while I sat in the shade of the dodger. I could have doused the sails and been at the anchorage in a third of the time it actually took, but you know, it never ocurred to me to do such a thing on a beautiful day like that.

Im with ye Rich', Take the long way home!

Actually Im commenting cause ye got me craving tea! LOL

Offshore, it is much easier to go with the wind, than if you have to be on something like the ICW. Or, someplace where anchorages can be few and far between.

Though I normally do offshore overnight hops between Carolina and the Keys, there are times when weather dictates using the ICW. Most of the time, that means motoring, or at best, motor-sailing. To me, that's where the cruiser vs sailor aspect comes in.

Some might simply wait for a weather window, but with the increase in anchoring restrictions, particularly in Florida, that isn't always possible. Or the anchorage you're at, may not be suitable for a longer stay.

I have a smaller "pocket cruiser", a 1970 Westerly Cirrus 22'. For me and my current needs, she's the perfect boat. When I was shopping for her I knew I wanted to keep costs down. There is a price jump for docks over 25', plus the costs of shore storage, overnights at marinas that charge by the foot, etc. I also knew from experience that I'd end up singlehanding a lot, and I wanted something I could easily manage in all conditions.

I wanted something sturdy and seaworthy (Lake ErieWorthy?) and the hull is certified by Lloyd's of London to be ocean capable. Comfort was important, and I looked a much larger boats with headroom for a dog. My interior is cavernous for a boat of her size and I have 5'10" headroom in the saloon. Sleeps four close friends, has a nice galley/setee, and an enclosed head with holding tank. The cockpit is very deep and secure from wind and waves, with plenty of room for company. The Westerly had an option for a 7hp diesel, but mine came with a 6hp outboard. That gives me a huge amount of storage behind the companonway ladder. It's a right proper little yacht!

I'm also of the KISS school of sailing. I have hank-on headsails, a simple motor, and very few gadgets. I did buy an Autohelm for safety and comfort reasons while singlehanding, but I can live without most of the extra goodies.

Mark: and a very pretty craft it is, too.

Mark: I've been meaning to respond to your post earlier, but you addressed so many issues of why I think small boats make excellent cruising choices.

Smaller boats require less of a cruising kitty for annual maintenance than do the larger ones. Maintenance costs are geometric rather than mathematical as length increases. And of course the dockage aspect makes the smaller boat more inviting. On the other hand, when I was on my nine month cruise down to the Rio Dulce and back I only paid dockage twice in the States in Key West (going and coming back) one day at Marina Paraiso in Isla Mujeres, one night in Caye Chappel, Belize, and three nights at Mario's Marina on the Rio when I went up to Guate City to get a part for my outboard, a part which, by the way, I was unable to get in the States at the time. The rest of the time I lived on the hook and loved it. In the six years I lived aboard my lovely Nancy Dawson I did so pretty much for free. I spent a year and 10 month in a famous boat yard in Ft. LaDeeDah at the work bloat dock and it cost me a total of $500 and I painted 19 signs for the yard. (Of course over the years as a boat captain I'd dropped off close to a million bucks at the yard) From there I moved to Marina Bay where I lived for three years absolutely free. A friend of mine and I did work for a large repo company who rented several complete docks there. We also bought, repaired and sold boats there and had worked out a deal whereby we got three slips for our own use and I lived at one of them.

There are two schools of thought concerning headroom...Nathanial Herrschoff designed most of his boats with only sitting headroom. He said if you want to stand up, go outside. I belong to the conviction that women don't lay down in boats they can't stand up in.

I also don't find it a big hassle not having an inboard engine, either. I loved having all the extra space and the 8 hp Suzuki would push me along just fine at hull speed in calm waters.

more pics added almost time for glass work

smaller boats do keep costs down. they also make refit posable for the average surf bum. lol life on the hook

Greetings all...
My wife and I sail a 1979 Oday 25 in the Tampa FL area. This is a great size for us, and I will echo the comments on smaller boat, smaller expenses. We keep out boat on a trailer with the mast up, paying just over $100 a month to keep the boat at marina boat yard. It's 30 yards to the ramp with no overhangs, we can be hooked to the truck, backed in and floating in minutes. It truly works for us.
That being said, we also trailer our boat all along the west coast of FL and have taken it to the keys for over a week at a time. It is a great way of extending a vacation when you don't have to figure in transit time to your destination. The boat trailers well on her tandem axle trailer, but let me tell you it's no fun filling the fuel tank on the truck when we take our Keys vacations....

Anyway, thanks for everything and I look forward to sopping up any and all information being offered on the forum, I might even through in a few pearls of my own.

Feel free to contact me via the message board or via email, we are always looking to meet like minded "sensible yacht" owners.
Ross in Tampa

Thanks for joining this group, Ross. You have made it a tie for the most popular group on SeaKnots.

I hope you will contribute with some of your adventures, tips and knowledge.

There really isnt a whole lot on my boat I can discern against, but my least important item would be my 2hp Johnson. Never use it! I almost would sell the thing really.

Richard, I read your 4/3 post, apparently I missed a section (or two), thanks for your input and am considering the book.


Others' post regarding boat worthiness are also hailed.

Ross:

Thanks for making this the largest group on SeaKnots.

How many in this group have single-handed their boats on a cruise of a week's duration or more?

I've done it a few times, I have had this boat for year sailed from the chez to Nantucket (last summer) doen to Bald Head Island NC (last spring)

Kevin, welcome aboard. One of the nice things about a small boat on a trailer is that your choice of cruising grounds are vastly increased. You can certainly make the trip from NJ to the Florida Keys a lot faster than doing it under sail.

Thanks for the welcome Rich.
After I hone my sailing skills up here I'd love to get down to the Keys one day.

I all new here so thought I would say hi.
I own a 30ft Hughs on Lake Ontario and just got back from a great sail. I had taken some land lubers out and it started off with 10knt in the morning building to 15 in the afternoon.
sunny hot and ran out of beer.
have a great day
Ken

OH, NO!!! Not out of beer!!!

No more brew??? I'd say another reason to sail alone, but who likes to drink alone. So, like the weather, we deal with it.

Just picked up 'Sensible Cruising', let the reading begin!

Kevin: Let us know what you think about the book. For me it was very influential.

Welcome aboard, Ric.

"Sensible" is definately the word! Didn't know that this great group was a whole nother thing. Already learned some ideas from reading these pages. My boat is truly small, but just right for me. With a 24' waterline on a 31' boat, I just don't go out in the rougher, bigger seas that fellow big boats do. Glad to be here!

In response to the singlehanded question, except for my first month (when trying to go Galveston to Key West), all my cruising is done single. Have buddied up a few times, usually to help someone out.

Okay, the main reason for this group is to give each other tips on Sensible Small Boat Cruising, so here's one. . .

We should all know that Rule 5 of the Inland and International Navigation Rules requires that all vessels maintain a "proper lookout at all times by sight and hearing, as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions, so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

This presents a problem for singlehanders who are engaged in cruises longer than a day sail. How do you mantain a "proper lookout at all times" when you also need to sleep? I think that if you're fortunate enough to have radar, the alarm feature might allow one to take a much needed nap, but who among us with small boats can 1) afford a radar? 2) have somewhere to mount one? Also, would the alarm be loud enough to wake a napper?

So, what is one to do?

When I was making the passage from Key West to Isla Mujeres, Mexico, and the reverse transit, I was at sea for 5 days going and 3-1/2 returning. You obviously can't stay awake that long. I've read of people who recommend using a cooking timer as an alarm system, but, to me, they don't ring long enough to be really effective. My solution was to buy TWO wind up alarm clocks. I set them both to go off at 12:30, so that when the clock was set to 12:00 they would go off in at the half hour. I slept in the cockpit and wedged the clocks in a little niche between the side of the cabin and the dodger and slept with my head next to them and would nap for a half hour. When they went off I'd arouse myself and check to see what was going on around me. If there was anything in sight I'd naturally stay awake until everything was clear and nod off again. But even this is dangerous when you consider that at the normal speed of most container ships and tankers a ship will go from horizon to horizon in about 18 minutes, but I find that a body needs around a half hour to do any good. The reason for setting the clocks at 12:30 is that even in the dark it's easy to reset them at 12 straight up, and the reason for having two clocks set the same is that they aren't going to actually go off together so if the first one doesn't rouse you the second will ring within a couple of minutes as backup. The system worked well for me.

Any suggestions about a dingy for a 24'. I live and sail in Southeast Alaska where there are plenty of islands and shore is never more than a couple miles away. I have 2 kids, wife and a dog and fishing gear for salmon and halibut so there isn't much room topside.

Wow, I can't believe how this group has grown! But at least I get to keep up with it, thanks to modern medicine.

At a little after 2 a.m. this past Monday morning, I awoke with a burning pain running from my left elbow up through my shoulder, across my chest and down through my right shoulder
and down to my right elbow. And when I say burning I mean it was like someone was branding me. Needless to say I knew something was seriously wrong here. It was
perhaps the second time in a couple of weeks I'd felt it, but we've had a ton of rain and that effects my shoulders with arthritis pain and it went away before. This time it wasn't going away and when I broke out in a cold sweat I knew for sure I was in deep doo doo.

I knocked on my roommates door and told him to get up and take me to the hospital..."I think I'm having a heart attack." I didn't bother calling 911 since we only live six blocks from one of the biggest hospitals in Broward County and we could get there in my car before an ambulance would get to our door.

They drew blood and took a chest xray and proved that I'm a pretty decent diagnostician. I was whisked off to an operating room and they did an angioplasty and inserted three
stents. I spent a day in the Cardio vascular ICU and on Tuesday they transfered me to a regular ward and today, Wednesday, I was released.

I feel fine as I ever did and the doctor gives me an excellent prognosis. Of course I've got to take a bunch of pills now instead of a single lisinopril a day, and one is Plavix at
$153.21 a month.

Well, I guess it all beats the alternative, though.

Richard, I just joined this group, and read your story about your heart attack. What a scary thing to go through. I'm so glad you got medical attention quickly and I hope you are doing well. Wishing you good health, fair winds and calm seas.

Gail, thanks for your kind words. Fortunately I only live six blocks away from the emergency room and they went to work on me in no time.

Also, thanks for joining the group. I hope you'll find something of interest in here that can help you and please don't hesitate to give your own tips on how to sail sensibly on small boats.

Check this out:

http://www.wikisailing.com/Wikisailing

Hi all, just got back from Alaska. so now its time to go sailing. Peace,
sundoger

Hi, I mostly sail boats in this size range, and have been pondering becoming a co-owner in one... I'm sure there's lots to learn and friends to make here.

Hi, Pam, welcome to the group.

Hello Small Cruiser Group:
After a 40 year very hectic environmental engineering career, our main retirement activity has been small boat cruising on our local 100 mi shoreline lake. Clear Lake is the largest natural lake in California and is located 75 mi north of San Francisco.
Since we bought our 1983 MacGregor 25 "Chantel Marie" in March 2003 we have sailed 254 days covering 4,631 gps track miles. Before each cruise which is usually 4 or 5 days, we zero our Magellan Meridian Color gps and use the gps to track our mileage and route. After the cruise, we printout the route on a map of Clear Lake and use printout as a cruise log.
We have had a good 2008 year cruising a total of 44 days covering 893 gps track miles. Our new Rolly Tasker Sails have worked fine and we especially like the two line reefing system.

Best Regards to All and happy Holidays,
Wilson and Christine
"Chantel Marie" Mac 25

Hello everyone, so nice to find this group. I have been single-handing my CS27 sloop around Lake Ontario for the past 28 yrs. Although I do have others aboard, I really enjoy solo sailing and especially when it's possible to sail in tandem with a buddy boat. It makes sharing a dinner or breakfast more pleasant when at anchor or another harbour. Currently I am at the eastern end of the lake exploring 1,000 Islands. I've had the opportunity to sail on boats up to 50' in the BVIs, both coasts of Florida, a bit in the Bahamas, Chesapeake, the ICW from Annapolis to Fl and the coast of Turkey. I have stayed aboard over many summers & gone to work from there although I have not yet lived aboard full-time. I have decided it's time to list my boat & once sold move up to a more liveaboard in the 32-34' range. I hope to spend a few years further exploring the Carribean. I am looking forward to reading all your posts and have no doubt I can learn much from you more experienced sailors. Hopefully, I can contribute as well ........ Dianne