Sailors and Motor boaters alike appreciate the "clean look"
of the mast with no shrouds and stays and most people think the boat is longer than it actually is. With the mast more forward than many boats, the boom doesn't sweep directly over head and makes the cockpit area a freindly place for anyone who's ever been whacked upside the head when we tack.
I just got her back in the water and the motor boaters are now agonizing over gasoline and diesel prices so much, they are thinking-hmmmm maybe a sailboat is the way to go.
Hey Lola, I'll support your group! Ive been upside, and other positions, reading to resolve the most confusing question -which boat to get? I read somewhere on the Freedom's and am a bit impressed with them. I will no doubt enter the cruising world on a strict budget so the whole thing about no rigging to wear out sounds feasible. Though the rule, givin' up somethin' for somethin' applies, I like the idea.
Wish you could tell me how much you like yours; how she handles!(hint hint)
People love the boat and ask about the free standing mast. The wonder if it will work. Overall they love the interior because it does not look like the inside of a refrigerator - like the Hunters and Catalinas.
Not an owner yet but am looking. Seems that you who are owners are very exciteded and happy with you boats. Where is a good place to research them?
How do they far offshore and in heavy weather? Any help will be appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
For those of you who feel that sailing is just too complicated and that you’ll never be able to master all its intricacies, here is an alternative to conventional stayed rigs that offers old salts and new sailing enthusiasts alike ease of handling, solid construction and performance that is likely to surprise more than a few.
Although the origins of unstayed cat rigs date back hundreds of years, this simple rig had fallen out of favor with cruising sailors until Freedom Yachts popularized it once again with its Gary Hoyt-designed series begun in 1975.
This slightly more performance-oriented evolution was designed by the late Gary Mull and introduced as the Freedom 30 in 1987. The transom was redesigned to include a boarding platform, the overall length increased from 29’ 11” to 31’ 6” and the model renamed the Freedom 32 in 1989. It should not be confused with an earlier Hoyt-designed Freedom 32 which was more than a foot longer and nearly a foot wider.
As are all Freedom models, this 30/32 was built by Tillotson Pearson International (TPI). Both the hull and decks are built of fiberglass composites with balsa wood core and the mast is built of a carbon fiber composite. TPI was a pioneer in both cored composite as well as carbon fiber construction and there are few, if any, in the industry with more experience and knowledge. The quality of construction is well above average for production boatbuilders. System installations are well done and typically equal to or above industry standards of the time. The oldest of these boats are now nearing 20 and I know of no builder-related, significant problems.
Although some feel the jury is still out on the longevity of carbon fiber masts, after more than 20 years in service I see no reason this technology should be shied away from. Most carbon fiber masts of this age will show some age and flex related crazing on the surface but I know of no greater incidence of failure of older carbon fiber masts than of aluminum.
A chief advantage of free-standing rigs is that there are no rigging shrouds to clutter up side decks and a secondary advantage is that there are no chain plates to maintain or worry about leaking. Unlike many boats of this size and age, there is no foredeck anchor locker. Instead there is an extended anchor davit/roller and hawse pipe leading to below deck rode storage. This arrangement means that a second anchor and rode must be stored elsewhere and that wet nylon rode is stored below deck where it can cause rather unpleasant odors in the cabin.
There are three opening deck hatches; the mainsheet traveler is on the cabin top forward of the companionway and the side decks are free of any obstructions. The cockpit is more than six feet long with comfortable seating and no necessity for cockpit-mounted winches to interfere with seating or comfort. All Freedom 30/32s have solid transoms but post-1988 models have a “sugar scoop” step that improves boarding.
The interior arrangements of both models are identical. It features a V-berth cabin forward, a head along the port side followed by the main saloon. There is a settee/pull-out berth along the port side of the saloon and a small (not large enough for sleeping) settee to starboard. A large table folds against the forward bulkhead when not in use and the galley is aft to port with navigation table to starboard. There is a quarter berth cabin aft to starboard touted as a double but, in reality, it’s a bit small and confined for two adults.
Auxiliary power is provided by an 18-hp Yanmar 2GM engine which has pretty much become de' rigueur for boats of this size. Engine access is reasonable by removing the front half of the engine box which doubles as a companionway step.
The free-standing mast tends to make some sailors a bit nervous. When once asked by a skeptic if the lack of rigging wasn’t dangerous, designer Mull responded that “Orville and Wilbur [Wright] used wires but Boeing doesn’t”. In fact, the lack of rigging actually reduces or eliminates many loads associated with stayed rigs and it could be argued they are safer. Sailors more accustomed to traditional rigs with overlapping headsails only need to tack up a narrow channel once or go through one accidental jibe in which the boom wraps itself around the lee shrouds to recognize some of the other advantages of this rig.
The Freedom 30/32’s sail area/displacement ratio of 20, displacement/length ratio of 208 and huge mainsail pretty much ensure good light air performance, particularly reaching and running. In order to improve windward performance, Freedom has added a small self-tending jib, and as the wind picks up, reefing is easily accomplished without having to leave the cockpit.
The availability of used Freedom 30/32 models is usually good although prices are typically higher than similarly sized models of the same age, from larger builders. Interior joiner work and finishes are noticeably better than those of some higher production builders accounting, to some degree, for the higher prices. At this writing I found six boats offered for sale ranging from a 1987 model at $35,000 to a 1992 model asking $69,500. Sales reported over the last year ranged from $37,000 for a 1987 boat in Maryland to $69,000 for a 1991 boat in the Great Lakes.
This is an easy, fun boat to sail and although storage is a bit limited for liveaboard or extended coastal cruising she is an excellent choice for sailors, new and old, looking to simplify their sailing experience.
Jack Hornor, NA is the principal surveyor and senior designer for the Annapolis-based Marine Survey & Design Co.
Well i found out the further south you go the more expense. Just between NC where I live in a house, and to Sc just over the border by minutes....it was drastic...so in Fla the worst.
I think we would enjoy photos of before and after...many show their restorations..
There are some repair and restoration discussions directly above here. There are so many resources on here for ideas.
As you can see I am a beginner, who made the boat into a Condo, now my Condo is becoming a Sailboat and I am learning to sail...I really feel we have the best of Boats.
Nice to hear from you. Why and for what purpose are you encouraged to go forward regarding sail trim? I only go forward while sailing occassionally simply for a change of seating environment but not for any functional purpose. Its hot here in Thailand so I'm almost always tucked under the bimini out from the scorching sun and drinking a gatorade. I have a clear plastic sight window in the bimini over the helm so I can get a reasonable view of the main. and if I lean out a bit on the leeward side I can see the lower telltales on the jib. I have nice stern perch seats. As long as the main halyard is high hoisted enough so you get no scuppers, the outhaul is adjusted fairly tight (thats the way I like it) and the boom-vang bringing the boom fairly flat (once again i like to sail with the sail fairly flat with little twist. Normally my winds blow fairly well averaging at 12-16 knots. Just right for an F30. Of course I simply ease the main until you get a bit of luffing near the mast and then snug up a just bit and always watch the yarn streamers along the leach so that they're flying aft nicely. I adhere to the "when in doubt let it out" saying. I think I seem to get better boat speed if I don't tighten everything up so much or oversheet. But I still like a flat main. And of course I'm always trending the boat speed in my head as a habit while I adjust sails just to make sure what I'm doing is improving boatspeed and not reducing it! Make sure the lazy jacks are loose enough to allow no interference with the shape of the main but not so loose that flaking the main on dousing becomes messy. The jib adjustment is not very critical except hard up close-hauled. Its easy to oversheet here too so ease and then sheet back in until you feel a nice constant pressure and the lower and mid level telltales are streaming aft nicely. Dousing the jib I found discovered the use of a downhaul. This was rigged by Al but when I splashed the boat but I took it off as I didn't need it on my F36. But the jib does not fall on its own weight so I pull it down with a line attached to the top cringle and lead down the jib stay to small leads and a block the ends up in the cockpit. I hoist, adjust, and douse all from the cockpit. When I leave the marina under motor I head upwind as soon as practical and set the auto-pilot. I then raise the main and jib which takes maybe 90 seconds total, then I bear away and kill the engine. I then do some house-keepping and straighten up the lines and hang the back pn the hangers except of course the main and jib sheets which I pull back towards the wheel. I do all this from the cockpit. I will normally do a quick set on the auot-pilot if I want to ease the main or jib and then I will walk around the wheel and do a wrap around the winch for adjusting the mainsheet. Same with the jib but the pressure of course is way less. If I have others on board I will give them the helm while I make a quick sail trim adjustment. By the way Freedoms are pretty forgiving and the range of sailing point is pretty broad before you really need to readjust sail trim. I only go forward because I want a different view of life! Is this what you were aiming at?
I sail with friends a lot but in reality I single hand most of the time and only ask their participation if they seem interested in doing something. Sometimes I'll take them forward so they can see the sail shape from a different perspective for conversational purposes and to marvel at the unstayed rig, but an experienced Freedom sailor really doesn't need to.
I agree with Doug with the exception that I if the weather permits I am always on the deck. I also single hand sail. My crew "Auto" keeps the boat heading into the wind or in whatever direction I set and I usually sit on the cabin watching others, or read or at times fish. The jib is the only thing that should force you on deck but as Doug state a jib downhaul will eliminate that chore.
When heading in I prepare the boat for docking which includes tying up all the sails its cooler on the water for these chores. Other then that you could stay below in the cabin if all is set right and no else is around!
Maybe its time to change the sail lugs on the main. There various cars that take the place of the plastic lugs. Harken is a maker of design and most good hardware vendors have their own. I also have a Milwaukee drill with a winch drill bit and I have no trouble at old+ getting the main up. You should look into it.
I spray my slides once in awhile with some form of lubricant. It might be that some of the reef lines are getting snagged or the vang is too tight or the first few battens get caught on the lazy jacks, or the outhaul is too tight etc??? Does it only get difficult near the top or all the way up? I raise the main without the winch until about half way up and then I cry uncle and put a few wraps around the winch and crank her up. By the way I negelected to mention the traveler trim. I normally leave it set centered unless the wind really blows and then I ease it to leward a bit. So....Lola is it just raising the main that is causing you difficulty? You're rigth when going forward on deck there is precious little to hold onto. its a good idea to stay low and always hold either the lifelines or teak coach top grab rails. But I never yearn for stays to hold onto! :-)
Yes if your reefing lines are not pulled all the way out so there is no restriction in raising the main, the main should go up pretty easy except the last 12" or so as Doug stated.
Also if you are uncomfortable about being on the deck since you sail in the ocean then use jack lines, harness, and always clip onto it when on the deck.
My main goes up pretty easy on the F-32. Avoid the lazy jacks and up it goes until the last foot! In addition to lubricating the tracks once a year, I clean them using the halyard and a little cleaner I got from West marine. It slides up the groove with cleaner on it.
Very effective.
I will put a downhaul on the jib as it doesnt fall on it's own that well. Other than that, it is the easiest boat to sail ever!
We put up the spinnaker often, and once we balanced the rig it is easy to do from the cockpit.
Freedom for sale
My F33, 1982 Freedom Cat Ketch with wishbone booms at Jacksonville, Fl,
Naval Air Station is now priced for quick sale at 25K.
Call me, John Jones, at 904-424-2490 or e-mail at a1john@comcast. net.
Maybe its time to change the sail lugs on the main, as Bob Weeks suggests,,,before I take the boat out for a few days...I have one broken, which was told no problem when I don't go too far.
Hi Lola
I have a Hoyt Freedom 33 UK built i fitted a PSS dripless seal 7years ago and have had no problems . I bought it in the US as your prices are much cheaper than the uk and had it sent to my daughter in laws parents in houston and then they sent to UK. Hope this helps John
Scott Forgey
May 24, 2008
Randy
of the mast with no shrouds and stays and most people think the boat is longer than it actually is. With the mast more forward than many boats, the boom doesn't sweep directly over head and makes the cockpit area a freindly place for anyone who's ever been whacked upside the head when we tack.
I just got her back in the water and the motor boaters are now agonizing over gasoline and diesel prices so much, they are thinking-hmmmm maybe a sailboat is the way to go.
May 25, 2008
LOLA
May 27, 2008
LOLA
Aug 10, 2008
___/)ances With Sails
Wish you could tell me how much you like yours; how she handles!(hint hint)
___/)
Sep 1, 2008
LOLA
Phoenix, AZ has a beautiful freedom..I'm trying to get him to join out group...go take a look.
Oct 13, 2008
LOLA
Oct 13, 2008
Scott Forgey
Oct 13, 2008
Robert Furborough
Oct 14, 2008
LOLA
Oct 17, 2008
Scott Forgey
Oct 18, 2008
FRED
How do they far offshore and in heavy weather? Any help will be appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
Nov 12, 2008
LOLA
Nov 12, 2008
LOLA
Type that in Search bar
Nov 12, 2008
LOLA
For those of you who feel that sailing is just too complicated and that you’ll never be able to master all its intricacies, here is an alternative to conventional stayed rigs that offers old salts and new sailing enthusiasts alike ease of handling, solid construction and performance that is likely to surprise more than a few.
Although the origins of unstayed cat rigs date back hundreds of years, this simple rig had fallen out of favor with cruising sailors until Freedom Yachts popularized it once again with its Gary Hoyt-designed series begun in 1975.
This slightly more performance-oriented evolution was designed by the late Gary Mull and introduced as the Freedom 30 in 1987. The transom was redesigned to include a boarding platform, the overall length increased from 29’ 11” to 31’ 6” and the model renamed the Freedom 32 in 1989. It should not be confused with an earlier Hoyt-designed Freedom 32 which was more than a foot longer and nearly a foot wider.
As are all Freedom models, this 30/32 was built by Tillotson Pearson International (TPI). Both the hull and decks are built of fiberglass composites with balsa wood core and the mast is built of a carbon fiber composite. TPI was a pioneer in both cored composite as well as carbon fiber construction and there are few, if any, in the industry with more experience and knowledge. The quality of construction is well above average for production boatbuilders. System installations are well done and typically equal to or above industry standards of the time. The oldest of these boats are now nearing 20 and I know of no builder-related, significant problems.
Although some feel the jury is still out on the longevity of carbon fiber masts, after more than 20 years in service I see no reason this technology should be shied away from. Most carbon fiber masts of this age will show some age and flex related crazing on the surface but I know of no greater incidence of failure of older carbon fiber masts than of aluminum.
A chief advantage of free-standing rigs is that there are no rigging shrouds to clutter up side decks and a secondary advantage is that there are no chain plates to maintain or worry about leaking. Unlike many boats of this size and age, there is no foredeck anchor locker. Instead there is an extended anchor davit/roller and hawse pipe leading to below deck rode storage. This arrangement means that a second anchor and rode must be stored elsewhere and that wet nylon rode is stored below deck where it can cause rather unpleasant odors in the cabin.
There are three opening deck hatches; the mainsheet traveler is on the cabin top forward of the companionway and the side decks are free of any obstructions. The cockpit is more than six feet long with comfortable seating and no necessity for cockpit-mounted winches to interfere with seating or comfort. All Freedom 30/32s have solid transoms but post-1988 models have a “sugar scoop” step that improves boarding.
The interior arrangements of both models are identical. It features a V-berth cabin forward, a head along the port side followed by the main saloon. There is a settee/pull-out berth along the port side of the saloon and a small (not large enough for sleeping) settee to starboard. A large table folds against the forward bulkhead when not in use and the galley is aft to port with navigation table to starboard. There is a quarter berth cabin aft to starboard touted as a double but, in reality, it’s a bit small and confined for two adults.
Auxiliary power is provided by an 18-hp Yanmar 2GM engine which has pretty much become de' rigueur for boats of this size. Engine access is reasonable by removing the front half of the engine box which doubles as a companionway step.
The free-standing mast tends to make some sailors a bit nervous. When once asked by a skeptic if the lack of rigging wasn’t dangerous, designer Mull responded that “Orville and Wilbur [Wright] used wires but Boeing doesn’t”. In fact, the lack of rigging actually reduces or eliminates many loads associated with stayed rigs and it could be argued they are safer. Sailors more accustomed to traditional rigs with overlapping headsails only need to tack up a narrow channel once or go through one accidental jibe in which the boom wraps itself around the lee shrouds to recognize some of the other advantages of this rig.
The Freedom 30/32’s sail area/displacement ratio of 20, displacement/length ratio of 208 and huge mainsail pretty much ensure good light air performance, particularly reaching and running. In order to improve windward performance, Freedom has added a small self-tending jib, and as the wind picks up, reefing is easily accomplished without having to leave the cockpit.
The availability of used Freedom 30/32 models is usually good although prices are typically higher than similarly sized models of the same age, from larger builders. Interior joiner work and finishes are noticeably better than those of some higher production builders accounting, to some degree, for the higher prices. At this writing I found six boats offered for sale ranging from a 1987 model at $35,000 to a 1992 model asking $69,500. Sales reported over the last year ranged from $37,000 for a 1987 boat in Maryland to $69,000 for a 1991 boat in the Great Lakes.
This is an easy, fun boat to sail and although storage is a bit limited for liveaboard or extended coastal cruising she is an excellent choice for sailors, new and old, looking to simplify their sailing experience.
Jack Hornor, NA is the principal surveyor and senior designer for the Annapolis-based Marine Survey & Design Co.
Nov 12, 2008
LOLA
Nov 13, 2008
LOLA
Nov 14, 2008
FRED
Nov 15, 2008
Robert Furborough
Nov 25, 2008
LOLA
THE FREEDOM LOGO
Dec 12, 2008
LOLA
Dec 30, 2008
LOLA
I think we would enjoy photos of before and after...many show their restorations..
There are some repair and restoration discussions directly above here. There are so many resources on here for ideas.
As you can see I am a beginner, who made the boat into a Condo, now my Condo is becoming a Sailboat and I am learning to sail...I really feel we have the best of Boats.
Dec 30, 2008
LOLA
Jan 7, 2009
LOLA
Jan 7, 2009
Douglas Domurat
Nice to hear from you. Why and for what purpose are you encouraged to go forward regarding sail trim? I only go forward while sailing occassionally simply for a change of seating environment but not for any functional purpose. Its hot here in Thailand so I'm almost always tucked under the bimini out from the scorching sun and drinking a gatorade. I have a clear plastic sight window in the bimini over the helm so I can get a reasonable view of the main. and if I lean out a bit on the leeward side I can see the lower telltales on the jib. I have nice stern perch seats. As long as the main halyard is high hoisted enough so you get no scuppers, the outhaul is adjusted fairly tight (thats the way I like it) and the boom-vang bringing the boom fairly flat (once again i like to sail with the sail fairly flat with little twist. Normally my winds blow fairly well averaging at 12-16 knots. Just right for an F30. Of course I simply ease the main until you get a bit of luffing near the mast and then snug up a just bit and always watch the yarn streamers along the leach so that they're flying aft nicely. I adhere to the "when in doubt let it out" saying. I think I seem to get better boat speed if I don't tighten everything up so much or oversheet. But I still like a flat main. And of course I'm always trending the boat speed in my head as a habit while I adjust sails just to make sure what I'm doing is improving boatspeed and not reducing it! Make sure the lazy jacks are loose enough to allow no interference with the shape of the main but not so loose that flaking the main on dousing becomes messy. The jib adjustment is not very critical except hard up close-hauled. Its easy to oversheet here too so ease and then sheet back in until you feel a nice constant pressure and the lower and mid level telltales are streaming aft nicely. Dousing the jib I found discovered the use of a downhaul. This was rigged by Al but when I splashed the boat but I took it off as I didn't need it on my F36. But the jib does not fall on its own weight so I pull it down with a line attached to the top cringle and lead down the jib stay to small leads and a block the ends up in the cockpit. I hoist, adjust, and douse all from the cockpit. When I leave the marina under motor I head upwind as soon as practical and set the auto-pilot. I then raise the main and jib which takes maybe 90 seconds total, then I bear away and kill the engine. I then do some house-keepping and straighten up the lines and hang the back pn the hangers except of course the main and jib sheets which I pull back towards the wheel. I do all this from the cockpit. I will normally do a quick set on the auot-pilot if I want to ease the main or jib and then I will walk around the wheel and do a wrap around the winch for adjusting the mainsheet. Same with the jib but the pressure of course is way less. If I have others on board I will give them the helm while I make a quick sail trim adjustment. By the way Freedoms are pretty forgiving and the range of sailing point is pretty broad before you really need to readjust sail trim. I only go forward because I want a different view of life! Is this what you were aiming at?
I sail with friends a lot but in reality I single hand most of the time and only ask their participation if they seem interested in doing something. Sometimes I'll take them forward so they can see the sail shape from a different perspective for conversational purposes and to marvel at the unstayed rig, but an experienced Freedom sailor really doesn't need to.
Cheers,
Doug
Nov 23, 2009
LOLA
Nov 23, 2009
Bob Weeks
When heading in I prepare the boat for docking which includes tying up all the sails its cooler on the water for these chores. Other then that you could stay below in the cabin if all is set right and no else is around!
Bob
Nov 23, 2009
LOLA
Sure wish I had a Freedom owner down here
The reason i bought a Freedom....was to sail from cockpit.
There is nothing to hold onto on the deck.
Nov 23, 2009
Bob Weeks
Bob
Nov 23, 2009
Douglas Domurat
I spray my slides once in awhile with some form of lubricant. It might be that some of the reef lines are getting snagged or the vang is too tight or the first few battens get caught on the lazy jacks, or the outhaul is too tight etc??? Does it only get difficult near the top or all the way up? I raise the main without the winch until about half way up and then I cry uncle and put a few wraps around the winch and crank her up. By the way I negelected to mention the traveler trim. I normally leave it set centered unless the wind really blows and then I ease it to leward a bit. So....Lola is it just raising the main that is causing you difficulty? You're rigth when going forward on deck there is precious little to hold onto. its a good idea to stay low and always hold either the lifelines or teak coach top grab rails. But I never yearn for stays to hold onto! :-)
Cheers,
Doug
Nov 23, 2009
Bob Weeks
Nov 24, 2009
Bob Weeks
Nov 24, 2009
LOLA
Nov 24, 2009
Scott Forgey
Very effective.
I will put a downhaul on the jib as it doesnt fall on it's own that well. Other than that, it is the easiest boat to sail ever!
We put up the spinnaker often, and once we balanced the rig it is easy to do from the cockpit.
Nov 25, 2009
LOLA
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/Freedom-Yachts--2112194/South-...
Dec 16, 2009
LOLA
My F33, 1982 Freedom Cat Ketch with wishbone booms at Jacksonville, Fl,
Naval Air Station is now priced for quick sale at 25K.
Call me, John Jones, at 904-424-2490 or e-mail at a1john@comcast. net.
Apr 18, 2010
LOLA
Jun 21, 2010
LOLA
Oct 20, 2010
LOLA
Question on my packing in Stuffing box
My SB is as tight as can. still leaks too much.
Mechanic says the key does not come out. He wants to slide the engine out to do so.
He will do in the slip.
Why does the key not come out.. Is there a secret? to get the key out? Seems strange that the engine has to be pulled to change the packing.
Those of you in the know, please advise.
Need help and advice.
Thank you, Lola F30
Nov 3, 2010
kenneth John Cooper
I have a Hoyt Freedom 33 UK built i fitted a PSS dripless seal 7years ago and have had no problems . I bought it in the US as your prices are much cheaper than the uk and had it sent to my daughter in laws parents in houston and then they sent to UK. Hope this helps John
Nov 5, 2010
LOLA
Nov 5, 2010
LOLA
Jul 13, 2011